GIY Ireland, Together We Grow

Prime time last night addressed this debate ... what do you think? Is it time that those in favour of the organic approach to GIY’ing stopped discrediting the traditional non-organic approach? Fast forward to 13.40 to review the discussion…
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10219820/

     

Very interesting - thanks for posting that Conn as I missed it at the time.

Good heading for the thread as well, as this is exactly the problem - the notion that it is one versus the other. I feel that there has been a move in recent years away from that debate and towards the idea of local produce. Darina even shifted the debate around to that towards the end of the piece.

     

I don’t think it’s black and white - there’s a gradient between dousing your crops in chemicals and using none at all. I’ve never used loads, but I’ve cut down and cut down, until I hardly use anything at all (but still wouldn’t quite be classed as organic yet). All chemicals are not equal either, there is stronger evidence of harm associated with some and these have to be a priority to cut out. I think some people find it daunting to just ‘go organic’, as it involves learning a lot of new techniques for dealing with problems and it takes time for the ecosystem of the garden to evolve. I get the impression that there’s a generational difference too. The postwar generation seem to have a greater trust in chemicals, medicines and so on, than the younger generations. People who are now middle aged will be the first generation to have been exposed to petrochemicals from pre-birth onwards and I am concerned at what the late-life consequences will be. Personally, I think reducing exposure to chemicals in the enivironment and food as much as possible has to be a good thing, and possibly a more achievable approach than ‘going organic’. I’d like to see supermarket food labelled with the pesticides used on it during growing and processsing - what do you think are the chances of that happening??

     

I think the one thing you can be sure of is that supermarkets will never label fruit or veg telling the consumer what herbicides/ pesticides has been used both pre sowing and pre harvesting and what post harvesting treatments have been used. Although a lot of customers would not be interested or would not understand the label many would, the supermarkets bottom line is to make you spend money, not to put you off.
Labelling is not the answer, many consumers don’t know the difference between ‘best before’, ‘use by’ or ‘sell by’ labels

     

Post removed by poster.

     

There is no such thing as almost Organic, you either are or you are not.

Organics should not just be about the way our food is produced. I know several ‘Organic’ producers that do everything that they should but are still not what I would call ‘Organic’. They have converted merely to get the additional REPs payment and a slight premium on what they produce, with no real belief in what they are doing. Seldom do these producers last, and they certainly would not be buying 100% Organic for their own food.

Statistic show that world wide, the Organic market has increased by 25% in the last three years, people are becoming more aware of the practices of conventional farming. Dairy cows keep inside for all of their lives, pigs never seeing the light of day. Animals fed on things that they would not normally eat, grains for example in the case of bovines, and animals forced to eat a vegetarian diet when they are in fact omnivores, pigs and poultry fall into this category.

The use of Organic slug pellets require permission from the certifying body, I myself have never used them, but having now read up on them I might just consider using them, they stop the slug from feeding so they just go away and die, they are species specific, frogs and birds are unaffected by them.
According to a WHICH survey they work as well as the inorganic pellets.

We were Organic farmers for many years, mainly poultry but retired when the standards were lowered so far to allow the ‘Big Boys’ to come on board.
Although no longer certified, we still produce our own food entirely organically and what little we don’t produce ourselves we only buy Organic.
We would not agree that it is only the freshness that makes ‘Organic’ taste better. Fruit and veg has to taste better if not subjected to post harvest treatments, many of which have been linked to cancer and allergy’s.

     

In hindsight, I’ve decided not to get involved in the organic versus conventional debate.

     

The notion of being almost organic is, in my view, quite valid. I use many organic practices and shy away, where practicable and where possible, from the use of pesticides/insecticides etc. etc.
I think there are thousands of “almost organic” gardeners just like me. People who have moved from shopping in Tesco for all their veg to a situation where now they are at least trying to grow their own and doing so with minimal aid from organic no-no’s. If there is no recognition of there being a continuum line between the conventional and the organic, along which the “almost organic” sits, then there is no room for those who are striving to reduce and eventually eliminate the use of non-organic practices/products. This group includes the vast majority of GIY’ers. If there is no such thing as “almost organic” I would have to be defined as conventional which I don’t believe I am. I would think that encouraging the “almost organic” is the long term solution and a step closer to healthier food since the more “almost organic” growers there are the greater the success of reducing the conventional. In addition such active encouragement spreads the word and adds to the knowledge base and increases the potential to educate those who are indifferent to the whole food empathy issue.
I recall, during my first year growing when I was at The Gathering in Waterford, enquiring from the IOFGA stand for information about becoming certified (yep, I was a little naive back then ) and I was talked right out of the idea and came away with the distinct impression that my kind weren’t really wanted. (My kind being a non-commercial gardener/allotment holder). It made me realise that the professional organic bodies are more interested in maintaining exclusivity and control over marketing the organic brand than they are in promoting the whole concept of healthier growing practices.
Anne, your statistic of 25% growth stands a little isolated and without context when we don’t all have a link to your source, if you can offer one it would be great, thanks.
I must admit that I think my “almost organic” veg tastes better than anything shop bought – even where the bought stuff might be certified organic.

     

The 25% increase in Organic comes from several web searches, just put in ‘world food sales’ or increase in world food sales, the only increase that immediately comes up is the Organic figures. If you look further you can find global figures for ‘fast food sales’.

I don’t know what year your inquiry was made to IOFGA . At one time ( many years ago) encouragement was given to people with a small amount of land wishing to set up market gardens, there was even grants available, I can’t remember how much, or rather little land you had to have to avail of this , it was certainly far under the amount of land required to qualify under the Organic reps program. It is very doubtful if this scheme still exists.

Anything that people grow themselves will be better than stuff bought from a supermarket, even if you use things that are sold to improve crop yield. It’s fresh for a start and has not been stored in warehouses or shipped from the other side of the world. I’m sure that if you are growing your own you think twice before spraying your crops with anything, you are more aware in my opinion of what you are growing so are less likely to want to dose your food with anything.

The Organic slug pellet comment was very interesting, which made me read up on it, why suffer the midnight hunt if there is something safe to kill the blighters.

Maybe we are just lucky that slugs seem to be our only major problem. 

     

Given that Conn has used my “almost organic” term seven times in one post, and given that the weather outside is terrible, I’d like to rejoin the debate.

I have to agree that the statistic of 25% growth is isolated.  How much growth has there been in conventional in that time period?  Is it also 25%, or less, or more?