GIY Ireland, Together We Grow

Hi guys, I am a newbie to gardening, based in Clare. After a hit and miss experience last year, I now have my compost bins in place and covered 4 plots with plastic in a meadow in preparation for this year’s growing, plus one plot planted with garlic in October. I even managed to collect some seaweed and spread it over one of the plots before covering. I am using Michael Brenock’s The Irish Gardener’s Handbook and Klaus Laitenberger’s Vegetables for the Irish Garden as my bibles. One thing I don’t fully understand is crop rotation: if I harvest my early spuds in July, what follows in that patch? What follows in my garlic patch ( I went nuts and planted 4 different types in October where I had harvested my potatoes (2nd earlies). I would like to try some spring onions for the first time, do I make successional sowings in the same plot for the full season? If I harvest a crop within a season, can I plant the same crop type again within the same season or do I follow the crop rotation plan and plant the next crop on the rotation list. Very confused and would be very grateful for any advice given.  Thanks, Yvonne

     

Hi Yvonne,

I’m not an expert and I cant answer every question you ask in your post but I can tell you there is a specific order to be followed in crop rotation. That is, Potatoes, Legumes, Brassicas, Onions, Roots. The easiest way to remember this is:
“People Love Bunches Of Roses”
The basic principle of crop rotation is to avoid the build up of specific diseases in each plot but also to help return nutrients which your veg take from each plot. For example, Peas and Beans fix Nitrogen in the soil which is good for your Cabbages, so these would be sown following harvesting of the Peas/Beans.
You can make successional sowings in the same plot throughout the growing season so you can sow/plant your Spring Onions every 2-3 weeks from March to July in the same plot.
With regard to what follows your Spuds in July.
The crop rotation system says Peas/Beans. But at that time of year you would be thinking of overwintering Peas and Broad Beans which you wouldnt be sowing until October/November so for August/September/October you could either plant fast growing crops such as lettuce/radish/mizuna or a green manure.
As I said I’m no expert and hopefully one of the experts here will answer you and perhaps correct/clarify what I am advising.

Don.

     

Hi Don
Thanks for your reply. I have a much better understanding of crop rotation now. I had read about it in the books, but until you explained it, I was confused.  I realise now that I was not taking into account that the follow on crops would need a certain length of time to mature.  I don’t intend to overwinter any crops just yet, so I will follow your advice and plant some lettuce.  I did read somewhere that radishes are brassicas, so I wont put them there.  The potato plot is quite a large one, so it seemed a shame to leave it empty in August and September, but I guess there is no harm in letting it rest until the following season.  I do after all have 4 other beds to tend to, so I have plenty of gardening to look forward to. Thanks, Yvonne

     

Hi Yvonne,

If your not planning on putting any veg in the Potato Plot over winter I would suggest you sow a Green Manure with the lettuce. It is best not to leave the soil bare.

Don.

     

Hi Yvonne

Great advice there from Don.

I would add that it is worth noting all of this down in a notebook or similar, because you might well end up standing at your beds with a pile of seedlings in your hand ready to plant, and draw a complete blank as to what should go where! Also, its hard to believe that you might forget what went in each bed from one year to the next, but that’s what happens.

Good luck with your growing this year and be sure to pop back with your own advice based on your experiences.

Also, thank you to Don for a very clear explanation.

Mícheál

     

It’s unlikely that your potato bed will be empty. There’s no need to dig them all up until they are needed or until about mid Autumn. In fact leaving them in the ground is the best form of storage.

     

Thanks Micheal. Glad to be of help to Yvonne. You guys did the same for me when I was at her stage on the learning curve.

Yvonne,
You should take note of what Michael says about writing things down and work out a plan on paper. It is truly startling how quick you forget what went where and when on your vegetable plot. Get yourself a decent Diary and record everything, don’t rely on your Plant Markers either, they weather really quickly.

Conn,
I was working on the premise Yvonne was growing Earlies - harvested by/in July - and that being the case I would lift them to avoid Blight/Slug damage.

Don.

     

Yep you’re right Pat… missed the “early” bit. Downside of reading posts off my phone Well spotted.

     

Mícheál , you are definitely right about the need to keep a record. I did keep an A4 diary last year when I started out. I found I had bits of information, all over the shop, not because I didn’t keep a proper record but because my records of what I was doing was in bits and pieces in each month. This year, I have set up a folder with dividers, so I can have the information together and that way hopefully learn from it. The folder is divided into sections such as Garden plans ( sketches, list of seeds etc.) Potatoes, Legumes, Brassicas, Onions, Roots ( Don -  I have learnt something already - People Love Bunches Of Roses).  I am going to recycle the empty pages from last year’s diary to keep it updated
Could I plant pumpkins/squashes in the early potato bed in July, if I kept potting up the plants till July?. My problem with green manure is that I would have to dig it in at some stage and that sounds like a lot of work (I haven’t tried it, so maybe I am just being lazy here) Thanks Don, Mícheál and Conn for your advice

     

Hi Yvonne. If I was faced with a choice between planting out pumpkins when they are ready (assuming proper weather conditions) V delaying until a specific bit of ground came free, I think I would choose the former.
I’ve been growing for about 5 years now and while I set out to do everything “by the book” I’v come to suspect that many of the “by the book” ideas are more about making things seem complicated in order to sell the book! ... rotation in a small plot such as a garden or an allotment is one of those things that I’ve come to believe is over rated. Many would feel that as most gardeners add compost/manure/seaweed to their plots regularly the nutritional argument for rotation is not so critical. They also believe that because of the human traffic around the plot and the use of hand tools/barrows/etc. isolating any disease/pest is nigh on impossible. I’v come to realise not to get too hung up on the 5 year (very complicated) rotation plan that I set up in year 1 and rather to just be conscious of not planting the same veg in the same place two years in a row. This is my two year plan . there are also three and four year plans out there that people use as well as the top of the range, Rolls Royce, PLBOR five year plan. My advice to any person taking up gardening for the first time would be to prioritise the pleasurable and the simple and to make sure they enjoy the experience rather than end up being disheartened because of the complexity of doing things “by the book”. ... Michael Brenock’s book is, in my view, one of the best for basic, on the plot advice and information. And he’s a lovely man to boot, very free and generous with his advice on this and other gardening forums.

     

Hi Conn, thanks for your positive advice: I intend to enjoy gardening and keep it all as simple as possible. The 5 bed rotation system as simplified and clarified by Don sounds like the best way forward for me at the moment: I have 5 beds semi-prepared (I am only using a 1/4 of the available space in a 1/2 acre meadow). The crop rotation system seems to provide a structured plan which should help me avoid analysis paralysis; it provides an outline of what will go where, the spuds go in the spud bed, the peas in the pea bed, the onions/garlic in the onion bed, the turnips and cabbage in the brassica bed and the carrots in the root bed - no more overthinking things to the point of procrastination.  I am going to give green manure a go, when I dig up the early spuds and then cover with black plastic when I dig it in.  One thing I am disappointed with, is that I ordered some of my seeds from Quick Crop ( once off delivery costs played a part here) and didn’t get what was promised on the website - number of seeds were less than a 1/3 advertised in some cases and less than 1/2 in others.  No response to my email asking why:(  A learning curve for next year! Michael Brenock’s book is definitely a great book:) As is Klaus Laitenberger’s:) Yvonne

     

It’s a shame when a company handles complaints about service badly. It’s said that news about poor service spreads 10 time faster than complements about good service…. anyway I doubt it will hold you back! Happy growing!!

     

Hi again Yvonne,

I’ve had similar experiences in the past when ordering seeds from online catalogues.

I would recommend you order from the GIY online Shop or The Organic Centre,  http://www.theorganiccentre.ie or Ir,ish Seed Savers, http://www.irishseedsavers.ie all o,f which I have used and found to be very reliable.

This year I have used Klaus’s new online Shop, http://greenvegetableseeds.com and I, would highly recommend him to you. The service is excellent and as with the others I mention you will only get seed which is particularily suitable for the Irish climate.
Also, if you fancy trying something different take a look at the Andes vegetable Tubers Klaus is selling on his site.
Coupled with the advice he gives through the Video Tutorials here on this site you have increased chances of success with your growing.

Don.

     

I started writing this reply in Notepad and read thru’ the comments as I went along.  Only to discover that much of what I’d written has been explained in later comments.  So, I’ll post it as I’ve it written.  Basically I’m saying much the same as Conn, Don and Micheal, just in my own words:

Yvonne, as a newbie you shouldn’t get hung-up on crop rotation.  Though it is a good practice, it is not the be-all-and-end-all that some people (elsewhere) make it out to be.
You seem to indicate that last season was a trial and 2014 is your first season in earnest?  As you are only starting out, crop rotation doesn’t affect you.  Plant whatever it is that you are planting in Season One.  Then in Season Two you can start rotating.
Anyway, the concept will makes more sense once you’ve actually got a season behind you.  I’ve seen so many newbies get hung up on crop rotation that it parallyses their efforts.  Like I said earlier, it’s good practice but not essential.

I’d also recommend the Seed Savers and the Organic Centre for seeds.  I’ve also use Nicky’s Seeds in the UK (http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/garden-shop/seeds/).  They have and enormous selection and delivery is very prompt.
Seedaholic are good too and give detailed planting descriptions on their website.

     

One other thing I’ll add on the CR topic.
I grow a lot of potatoes for reasons I won’t go into here.  Last season half of my plot was potatoes.  Does that mean I’ll grow 50% legumes this season[?]  Or that this season’s potatoes will be squeezed into that small end of drill where I grew a meagre crop of root veg last season[?]

Actually, this is the final thing I’ll say about CR.
A guy I worked with, who knows nothing about gardening or growing veg, brought up the topic of CR.  It reminded my of that story of Joe Kennedy selling his shares just before the Wall Street Crash.  “You know it’s time to sell your shares when the shoe shine boy is giving you a stock tip.  This bull market is over!”

     

Hi My Potatoes,

You don’t have to grow just Legumes in last years Potato plot. Simply swap over whatever else you grew last year to last years Potato Plot.
However, whilst this will be absolutely ok this year, next year might well bring you problems. Potatoes are prone to a wide range of deseases and pests so it is essential that you follow some kind of rotation.
As you haven’t mentioned what other crop families you are growing it’s difficult to give you more specific advise.
Allocating 50% of available space to just one crop does impose severe restrictions.

Don.